The original of this report may be found here on facebook. Below I have copied it and added some useful webpage formatting.
.
The forecast was 100% chance of precipitation and I felt like I needed a rest so I decided to give my salsa walk a miss today.
I always do my washing Monday night using half price electricity after 0030 but when it finished at 7:45 GMT just before the full price electricity cut in (it’s always 17 minutes late) I discovered that the washing machine had leaked. Investigation showed that the machine was overfilling allowing the water to escape too easily through the plastic seal round the drum. It’s too old to even think about fixing it (over 10 years) so I will have to buy a new one. I discovered that LG is the best brand for a washing machine and have dismissed the possibility of getting a combo washer dryer because washing and drying are specialised tasks requiring different drum configurations & sizes and the combo machines take far too long to dry clothes. Typical estimates are 400 or more minutes for washing and drying whereas I normally achieve 160 minutes using separate machines. I usually time the washing machine to turn on around 5am and then finish around 6:20am with a fast spin when the neighbours are probably waking up anyway. I wake up just before 6:25 to transfer the washing to the tumble dryer which I set on high heat for 80 minutes which means it finishes around 7:45 just before the daytime rate of Economy 7 kicks in. With a combo machine the spin would probably have to run around 4am and wake my neighbours up when they’re fast asleep. I’ve decided which LG I should buy (from Currys online of course) for around £350 but will review for a week or two before I make a final decision and actually buy it. The chosen one is LG AI DD V3 F4V309WNE 9 kg 1400 Spin Washing Machine – White
Essential requirements:
- Spin speed 1400rpm (chosen one achieves 44% water retention instead of the 53% quoted for other machines)
- Delay timer 5 hours (Up to 19 hours for chosen one)
- Depth 600mm or less (565mm for chosen one)
- Height 855mm or less (850mm for chosen one)
- Width 600mm ideal but not a limitation (600mm for chosen one)
The quoted power used per cycle of 0.62 kwh for the chosen one sounds reasonable compared with the 0.21 I usually use as it’s only adding 0.41 for heating the water. I normally use an economy wash with the water at room temperature. Hopefully I can specify room temperature or 20C but if I can’t it’s not that important because it’s the tumble dryer which uses the most energy. Usually it comes to 2.8kwh with a total for washing and drying of 3.0kwh. This increasing to 3.4kwh is not a problem for once a week
.
Later that day I confirmed that the problem was the machine was overfilling the drum so that the water was over-spilling a lot onto the plastic seal from the outer drum to the door and was clearly leaking through it. Normally the water level is below the edge of the drum and only a few splashes get to the seal.
I blew through the pipe which goes from the drum into the water level sensor at the top of the machine to make sure it wasn’t blocked but this made no difference. I investigated the seal and discovered that it was a bit mouldy and was probably leaking. I managed to remove it with intention to investigate how much a replacement would be but it became clear that refitting one was a major job requiring a special tool to make it water tight at the door and at the outer drum.
I therefore decided to buy the chosen LG one immediately instead of delaying as planned. This was just as well because it turned out that the January Sale £100 discount ended today! This reduced the price from £449.99 to £349.99. Also the maintenance discount of 42% from £3.50 down to £2 a month ended today. This is lifetime replacement if necessary maintenance so it is well worth having as it means I will never have to pay for another washing machine! There was a further charge of £25 for installation which is worth having so that the machine is fully tested and working before the delivery people leave and £20 for recycling my old machine which is a bargain if you work out how much it costs to get the Council to take it away.
I gave up on the idea of getting a combo washer/dryer because I discovered that the two processes are quite different with a dryer requiring a drum twice the size of a washer for the same amount of washing! I also discovered that the drying times were far too long for my requirement of starting the washing machine on the timer at 5am for it to finish it’s fast spin around 06:20 (when the neighbours are getting up anyway) for transfer to the tumble dryer to finish by 07:45 when the more expensive daytime electricity of Economy 7 kicks in.
I am expecting the new machine to be installed between 10:20 and 16:20 on Friday 29 January which is impressive as that’s only two working days after I ordered it!
.
Friday 10:55: Just got a call to say they would be with me in half an hour which is good as I didn’t want to miss my salsa walk which usually I usually begin at 2pm.
Friday 12:00: Washing machine installed and tested – it’s very quiet. It doesn’t have delayed start but it does have delayed end. I presume this means it delays the end of the program selected by the number of hours selected, presumable from the time that it would have ended without a delayed end. This makes very little difference to me because I still have to know how long the program I decide to use for my regular Monday overnight washing before I decide at what time to set the delayed start so that the program finishes at 0620 so that I can transfer the washing to the tumble dryer for an 80 minute program ending at 0745 just before the expensive daytime Economy 7 electricity kicks in!
NO! I suddenly realised while out for my salsa walk that it can’t be thus. Most machines have a delayed start so the only logic in having a delayed end is for it to mean that you want the start to be delayed until the end will be n hours from now. So for example: if I want the program to end at 06:20 I need to set the delayed end for 6 hours at 00:20. This means I don’t need to know how long the program will take which is just a well as that is likely to be different for different loads, even if I use the same program every time. This makes it an excellent facility ideally suited to my requirements!
.
Friday 1700: Having read the instruction manual it would seem my 2nd assumption (in red) regarding the effect of delayed end is correct and that I can use the Cotton program, change the temperature to cold, set delayed end and press start. When set to 20C which runs at 31C this program takes 1:50 and uses 0.177kwh so it will probably take 1:30 on cold and use a lot less that the 0.21kwh that the old machine used to use.
Sunday 0824: Having investigated recommended temperature settings on the Internet I have resolved to buy some Ariel 3 in 1 Pods which actually mentions cold washes at 20C on the packet as opposed to others which mention 30C. The actual temperature of my cold water in Winter is 15C but I’ve read that 15C is fine for cold washes using modern detergents with enzymes which means biological of course. There is only one brand which mentions 15C though and that is Ariel again at Washing Machine Cycles Explained and only one product namely Ariel Excel Gel. The latter claim has been disputed but as I don’t have any whites to wash I’m not concerned. If I did have whites with stains apparently I would have to turn up the temperature to 30C which isn’t too bad because:
Heating 1L of water from 15C to 100C takes 150 seconds at 2.86kw in my kettle which is 0.119kwh which is 1.4 watt hours per degree per litre. That means that the 20L of water in an average washing machine for the wash cycle can be heated from 15C to 30C using 0.420kwh which would cost me 3.86p extra during the night on my Economy 7 tariff. As I only use the washing machine once a week that would only cost me £2 extra per year!
After I made that calculation I discovered that officially it takes 4.184kJ of energy to heat 1L of water through 1C (1 watt hour = 3,600kj) which is 1.16 watt hours per degree per litre. As my washing machine only take 18.3L for the washing cycle (55 / 3) the correct calculation is (1.16 x 15 x 18.3) / 1000= 0.318kwh x 9.2p = 2.9p x 52 weeks = £1.50 extra a year!
On the other hand a heating element isn’t 100% efficient so perhaps the true answer lies somewhere between the two at £1.75 extra per year for example. However, at this low value the calculation is purely for interest only! At that price I might as well set the machine for 20C, which the manual says achieves 31C in the hottest part of the wash, just to make sure it’s ok but I won’t because it’s a matter of principle for me now to use cold water as it comes out of the tap. This means that the machine can never suffer from the limescale which would be produced from the very hard water in my area and will therefore last for a longer time! The only thing I should do differently from now onwards is to leave the door open to allow the machine to dry in between uses – particularly the rubber seal which can get mouldy. Also, I must also remember to check out the Drain Pump Filter twice a year for which a special plug is provided at the bottom right of the machine.
If something goes wrong this machine has Smart Diagnostics whereby you install the LG ThinQ app and press Temp for 3 seconds whereupon the phone makes an audible connection to help you diagnose the problem if there is one.
.
LIMESCALE
Having talked about using cold washes to avoid limescale it would seem that they actually cause it! See Limescale build up in your washing machine? what causes this and how to cure it. As my instruction manual says nothing about this, but does have a Tub Clean function for use twice a year which reduces build-up of detergent, softener and other residue, I will continue with my plan to use cold water washes always as I also found this article Reduction and prevention of limescale in continuous flow hot-water systems which makes it clear that “In hot-water systems, practically precipitation of calcium carbonate, CaCO3, starts to occur at approximately 35°C to 40°C and progressively worsens as temperatures rise.“
I believe the answer to this conundrum is that I am thinking about the limescale that builds up on heating elements when they are used to heat hard water and for that the 2nd article above about hot water systems applies. If cold water is always used then there can be no build up of limescale on the elements. If they are used for temperatures of 40C or less that should be fine too but there can surely be no build up at all if they are never used for heating which means it doesn’t matter how often you use a cold water wash. On this basis I’d be happy to set the temperature of all washes to 20C, for which the water reaches 31C apparently, to give the detergent a better chance of cleaning as designed. This should keep the elements healthy for the occasional use at higher temperatures if required.
The first article about lime scale build-up is referring to the general gunge which builds up inside a washing machine and this happens more for cold water washes than it does for hot because as it says in the article the active parts of detergent which are supposed to clear the gunge aren’t activated during cold water washes. However, for this problem the Tub Clean function will apply and I will use it ever six months to keep the machine clear of too much gunge!
.
Tuesday 2 February
I couldn’t get Ariel 3 in 1 Pods as planned at Asda because they only had All in 1 which was £5.95 for 36 pods which is 16.5p a pod. Maybe 3 in 1 is just a gimmick – it’s supposed to keep the three ingredients separate until mixed with water to activate them – and it did mention 20C on the packet so I went for the All in 1 planning to set the washing machine for Cotton 20C which according to the manual takes 1:51 and uses 0.177kwh.
At 23:20 I put my washing in the machine on top of a pod and set it for Cotton – 20C – Delay 7 hours. I was very surprised when the machine turned on at 04:06 with 01:52 to go meaning that it would finish at 05:58 which is 22 minutes earlier than I expected. In the event it finished at 06:00 and used 0.3kwh.
I transferred the clothes, which felt much dryer than usual, to the tumble dryer and turned it on at 06:05 for 70 minutes. I usually set it for 80 particularly when there are 3 towels rather than the usual 1 but it seemed to me that 70 would be fine. At 07:15 I checked the clothes and they were nice and dry, really soft and smelt nice. I forgot to mention that I got Ariel All in 1 with a Touch of Febreze so I didn’t bother with using a fabric softener! The tumble dryer used 2.16kwh making the total power usage 2.46kwh.
The point is that 4am is much too early for running the washing machine with the first pump out coming at 05:16. The neighbours in the flat below must have cursed me. They are used to hearing a bit later on Tuesday mornings – with the final spin ending at 06:20 – and that’s what I would like to achieve again. I worked out that I could use Mixed Fabric – 20C – 1400 spin and set it for 7 hours delay end time at 23:45 on Mondays. My assumption is that the machine always ends the wash 20 minutes earlier than the delay end time used. As the quoted time for this setting is 1:21 this means the machine should turn on at 05:04 and finish at 06:25. If I get up and transfer the clothes to the tumble dryer by 06:30 a 70 minutes cycle will end at 07:40 in good time before the Economy 7 daytime rate of 17.6p per kwh kicks in at 07:45 to replace the 9.2p per kwh night-time rate. The Economy 7 night time rate is supposed to run from 00:30 to 07:30 but it’s always 15 minutes late!
If the machine actually ends at 06:45, 70 minutes of the tumble dryer overruns the Economy 7 night-time rate by 10 minutes but the last 10 minutes is cold to cool down the clothes to prevent them wrinkling so that won’t use much expensive daytime power!
.
Tuesday 9 February 2021
23:41 Set washing machine Mixed Fabric, Cold, 1400, Delay End 7 hours, Start
TIME TOGO = FINISH
00:46 5:57 = 06:43
00:47 Add, changed temp to 20C, Start
04:52 1:55 = 06:47 Predicted end of the program
05:08 1:14 = 06:22 Started 25 minutes early just in case
05:37 0:45 = 06:22 Washing cycle continues
05:44 0:38 = 06:22 Pump out begins (130wh used so far)
05:47 0:35 = 06:22 Spin begins
05:50 0:32 = 06:22 Fast spin begins and leads to the end the washing cycle
05:51 0:31 = 06:22 1st rinse begins
06:02 0:20 = 06:22 Really fast spin begins and leads to the end of the 1st rinse
06:03 0:19 = 06:22 2nd rinse begins
06:16 0:03 = 06:22 Super fast spin ends the 2nd rinse
06:22 End (220wh used – compared with 458 at standard setting of 40C & 1000 for spin with elapsed time 1:21)
06:23 Clothes transferred to tumble dryer
06:25 Set for 70 minutes
07:35 Checked clothes – nice and dry
That means only 18L of water are used for each of the 3 cycles (55L/3): wash, rinse 1, rinse 2 and the first noticeable noise occurred at 05:44 for the first pump out with the really fast spin occurring after 6am! This is more like what I have been doing with the old washing machine since July 2016 which is therefore acceptable.
The data confirms my suspicion that the new machine automatically adds 25 minutes to its estimate for the program set and the clothes loaded just in case things take longer than expected. The unknowns are: water pressure for incoming water and therefore the time to pump in 18L of water 3 times, temperature of the incoming water and therefore the time taken to heat it to 20C and the time taken to pump out at the end of each cycle which depends on the efficiency of the external piping.
I will therefore set the washing machine at 23:45 each Monday night for Mixed Fabric, 20C, 1400, Delay End 7 hours to get the same timings every week from now on. The official time for the program is 1:14 compared with 1:22 for the old machine. The new machine will turn on at 05:06 and finish at 06:20 after 1:14. It plays music to wake me up but I have an alarm set on my phone too just in case. I will then transfer the clothes to the tumble dryer by 06:25 and set it on high for 70 minutes finishing at 07:35 which is 10 minutes before the Economy 7 system switches from night-rate (9.2p/kwh) to day-rate (17.6p/kwh). So if I have more clothes than usual to wash I can set the tumble dryer for an extra 10 minutes if I think it is needed. The total power used is 0.22 + 2.16 = 2.38kwh which costs 21.9p.
.
TOTAL COST OF WASHING
The Ariel All in 1 with a Touch of Febreze pods cost 16.5p each (£5.95 for 36). The washing machine costs e £2 a month for Care & Repair and £3.29 a month for the capital outlay of £395 if I assume it’s going to last 10 years as the last one did. That’s a total cost per week of:
21.9p + 16.5p + £2/4.33 + £3.29/4.33 =
21.9p + 16.5p + 46.2p + 76p = £1.61
Which is a lot cheaper and easier than using a laundrette which if you can find one would typically cost £3 to £6!
.
TIME TO HEAT THE WATER
It takes 4.184k joules of power to heat 1L of water through 1C so heating 18L of water from the 15C it is when it comes out of the cold tap to the 20C required for the wash program I selected requires 18 x 5 x 4.184kj = 376,000 joules. This represents 376,000 / 3600 watt hours = 104wh. If the heating element uses 2000 watts of power it takes 3600 x 104 / 2000 seconds = 188 seconds ( around 3 minutes) to heat the 18L water to 20C.
.
COLD WASHES DON’T SAVE A LOT OF MONEY!
The washing machine used 220wh altogether to do the full wash so just over half of the power was used to run the drum motor, the pump in and the pump out. If I had specified a hot wash – say 60C – this would have required 832 extra watt hours and 25 extra minutes which would have cost an extra 0.832 x 9.2p = 7.7p so the often given advice that cold water washes save a lot of money is nonsense! The only real advantage of using colder washes is really the avoidance of the limescale that is produced on heating elements when the water temperature exceeds 40C.
.